John 6

[Gary Hammock]

I have heard a lot of comments on this forum. Some good some bad... I'm curious about the way many here interpret John Chapter 6, a set of texts that many scholars believe are from other sources besides the Hebrew God.

Joh 6:53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
Joh 6:54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
Joh 6:56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

When I first read this several years back while enjoying a rather lengthy and hearty discourse with some Jehovah's Witnesses at my house, I was disgusted. It behooved me to imply the Torah and suggest that cannibalism, whether symbolic or literal is just plain sinful.

I have since come to learn that this statement is placed in the bible from other pagan sources, and it isn't holy in any way. It's taken from Mithraic cults of the Mediterranean caves and underworld.

Just a thought for those who may be considering leaving the Christos figure behind and coming to the true path, the Hebrew canon alone as their guide and YHWH their Elohim alone as their source.

[jeffcamp]

Dear Gary,
There are many things in the Bible or Torah that if you only read that part would seem wrong. You are not the first one to bring up this verse and use the word cannibalism. I will try the explain it, eventhough I believe you already have made your mind up on what you think.
Jesus is like the Lamb of the Torah. The Lamb washed the early Jews of there sins for a period of time. I believe the Lamb was a temperary thing until Jesus was put to death. I believe Jesus was the sacrifice for everyones sins, for all that accept him. I believe you eat the bread to remember his flesh, and drink the wine to remember his blood, that he shed on the cross. Jeff

[Gary Hammock]

Sorry Jeff,

Sounds too much like the Mithraic practices of the early 1st century BCE. Also, your comparison is hardly worth anything. YHWH commands people to actually eat lamb meat, the real animal flesh. Jesus was a human being, no?

Also, this "temporary thing" you bring up, doesn't that contradict Deuteronomy 4:1,2? Isn't Torah everlasting and binding forever? The commandments of the Hebrew canon are true and sound. (Psalm 19).

I'm going to call your bluff on this, and chock it up to pagan mystery religion and it's Eucharists and communal solar deification. The Jesus figure is really no different than a number of other pagan mystery deities. "Eat my flesh and drink my blood" is completely against true Torah. I simply won't accept such evil statements and wickedness.

Sorry. Priase YHWH for the real actual Torah which doesn't require any "new" testaments.

Shalom

[jeffcamp]

Dear Gary,
Do you believe Moses led the Jews from Eygpt? If you do, what powers did he use? The Jews say Jesus was a good man. They admit he did preform many miricles. If so what powers did he use?

I believe he used the power given to him by God, just as Moses did.

Now as for Deuteronomy 4:1,2
Maybe I should look into following that and obeying all the commands given to the Jews back then. I have never done that. Maybe you can help me.
The other thing is I never get tested like you are doing to me. It is making me study and reason like I never have. And trust me I do not use my mind like I should. So it is kinda like the Alabama Team playing the local High school here. But I like learning the hard way. Thanks Jeff

[Gary Hammock]

Hi Jeff,

Well, Moses was empowered by "YHWH Elohim" according to the Hebrew bible. Jesus never mentioned "YHWH" nor did any NT book. The NT is talking in Greek, not Hebrew, and is therefore irrelevant. It misquotes the Hebrew in numerous places, sure, but it's not the real thing.

Moses also never did anything against Torah which claimed to be godly. For instance, Jesus taught his disciples to break the Sabbath, steal and that nothing entering their body would defile them. Need examples? John 5, Matthew 12, Jesus himself breaks the Sabbath as John himself says in John 5, Matthew 12 where Jesus says it's ok to pick grains on the Sabbath, (Numbers 15 disagrees, a man was stoned to death for picking up sticks). Theft, "I come like a thief in the night", "go get that donkey from that man and tell him the lord needs it", and of course all the "nothing is unclean" verses throughout the NT.

Turning water into wine is SORCERY plain and simple. It has absolutely no godly reason whatsoever. The water in those containers was there for YHWH's Torah purification rites. Jesus made a mockery of that. Of course the tale in John is actually from the tale of Dionysus, so it's not Jesus' original thing anyway.

The idea is that if the Universal church can get pagans to accept Jesus, they'll claim Jesus did all the things their pagan gods did too, (dying for three days and rising on the third just like the other sun-gods and Saturnalia concepts, turning water to wine, being born of a virgin, etc).

Was Moses born from a virgin? Was anyone in the Hebrew canon? Isaiah 7:14 is totally abused by the "Matthew" figure in the first book of the NT. Unless the prophetess' son was also born of a "virgin" the text makes absolutely no sense. Isaiah 7:14 is ENTIRELY fulfilled in Isaiah 8:3. It's complete THEFT to apply it to the Jesus idol.

Also, Moses isn't my savior any more than Jesus isn't. Only YHWH can save you, wash your sins away, and he does it all through simple repentance and prayer. No need to believe in any spooky dying and resurrected third day sun deities.

YHWH doesn't die. Jesus does.

Worship and homage YHWH alone, and leave Jesus dead on the cross where he belongs.

Shalom