Moon Sabbath

[jeffcamp]

Gary,
It seems you live to see the divisions. You like your deism, then why you here? If that is what you believe then why are you here pushing what you believe on us? Did someone from this web-site come to your deism web-site and start something? If they did they are wrong. Jeff

[toddvetter]

Thanks James,
u post-
by James Randolph » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:58 am
marwy, I'm not a Bible student, but I can read. --------
I have no idea what you're talking about with alpha and omega. Unless you mean alpha male. Sorry, I thought I was being plain about authorities. I'm taking the Douay-Rheims Bible as authority for the purpose of this discussion. Take it or leave it. I'm certainly not going to take some Protestant Bible. A person has to draw a line somewhere.

I like to use numbers 33:3 to illustrate the good seed and the bad seed in the same field. Good seed sown by Christ and bad seed sown by Satan. Your about to witness spiritual babylon by the mixing of words. God confused the language at the tower of babel to divide the people and keep them from completing thier mission. Now you going to see how Satan has done this with your bibles.

Douey Reims does not fair so well on this verse an for this reason it's gives the perfect example of how the written testimony of men can be broken but what God spoke cannot be broken, I saved the best for last.

In the 6 bible verses which follow we see the symbolism preservation in Old Testament scripture for the High day only mentioned one time in bible New Testament verses in the book of John 19:31

Numbers 33:3 (King James Version) 3And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the Passover the children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians.

Numbers 33:3 (Amplified Bible) 3They set out from Rameses on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the day after the Passover the Israelites went out [of Egypt] with a high hand and triumphantly in the sight of all the Egyptians,

Numbers 33:3 (21st Century King James Version) 3And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month. On the morrow after the Passover the children of Israel went out with a high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians,

Numbers 33:3 (American Standard Version) 3 And they journeyed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the Passover the children of Israel went out with a high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians,

Numbers 33:3 (Young's Literal Translation) 3And they journey from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month, on the morrow of the Passover have the sons of Israel gone out with a high hand, before the eyes of all the Egyptians --

Numbers 33:3 (Darby Translation) 3They journeyed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month. On the morrow after the Passover the children of Israel went out with a high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians.

The verses which follow are the same verse but the words are changed to cause men to lose or hide the true understanding of the High day. Tradition of belief currently states the high day is a ceremonial Passover Sabbath falling in conjunction with a seventh day Sabbath.

Numbers 33:3 (New International Version) 3 The Israelites set out from Rameses on the fifteenth day of the first month, the day after the Passover. They marched out boldly in full view of all the Egyptians,

Numbers 33:3 (New American Standard Bible) 3(A)They journeyed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the next day after the Passover the sons of Israel (B)started out boldly in the sight of all the Egyptians,

Numbers 33:3 (The Message) 3-4 They marched out of Rameses the day after the Passover. It was the fifteenth day of the first month. They marched out heads high and confident. The Egyptians, busy burying their firstborn, whom GOD had killed, watched them go. GOD had exposed the nonsense of their gods.

Numbers 33:3 (New Living Translation) 3 They set out from the city of Rameses in early spring—on the fifteenth day of the first month[a]—on the morning after the first Passover celebration. The people of Israel left defiantly, in full view of all the Egyptians.

Numbers 33:3 (English Standard Version) 3They(A) set out from Rameses in(B) the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month. On the day after the Passover, the people of Israel went out(C) triumphantly in the sight of all the Egyptians,

Numbers 33:3 (Contemporary English Version) 3-4Israel left the Egyptian city of Rameses on the fifteenth day of the first month. This was the day after the LORD had punished Egypt's gods by killing the first-born sons in every Egyptian family. So while the Egyptians were burying the bodies, they watched the Israelites proudly leave their country.

Numbers 33:3 (New King James Version) 3 They departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the day after the Passover the children of Israel went out with boldness in the sight of all the Egyptians.

Numbers 33:3 (New Century Version) 3 On the fifteenth day of the first month, the day after the Passover, the Israelites left Rameses and marched out boldly in front of all the Egyptians.

Numbers 33:3 (Holman Christian Standard Bible) 3 They departed from Rameses (A) in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the month. On the day after the Passover (B) the Israelites went out triumphantly (C) [a] in the sight of all the Egyptians.

Numbers 33:3 (New International Reader's Version) 3 The people of Israel started out from Rameses. It was the 15th day of the first month. It was the day after the Passover Feast. They marched out boldly in plain sight of all of the Egyptians.

Numbers 33:3 (New International Version - UK) 3The Israelites set out from Rameses on the fifteenth day of the first month, the day after the Passover. They marched out boldly in full view of all the Egyptians,

Numbers 33:3 (Today's New International Version) 3 The Israelites set out from Rameses on the fifteenth day of the first month, the day after the Passover. They marched out defiantly in full view of all the Egyptians,

The verse below is from a Catholic translation which completely hides that this verse is in regards to the Passover and loses the symbolism of the High day. This verse tells us about early Christian history and that things were lost due to poor translation and lack of understanding of the Ceremonial laws which God fulfilled.

Numbers 33:3 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition.) 3Now the children of Israel departed from Ramesses the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month, the day after the phase, with a mighty hand, in the eight of all the Egyptians,

[gary.zw]

The Sabbath was instituted by God three days after the creation of the moon (Gen. 1:14; 2:2), not the seventh day after the first day of the month. With this fact in mind it shows the Lunar Sabbaths as false because the Sabbath would have to have been instituted 7 days after Creation of the moon not 3 days as the biblical record shows.

Satan has waged war against God's Law and especially The Sabbath of the 4th Commandment, now we see being taught by some that the Sabbath day varies from week to week and may even be on a Sunday. This teaching of the Lunar Sabbaths are false. Please see that this is a deception of Satan to cause man to forget the true Sabbath Day.

There is an apparently growing group of people that propose that weekly Saturday Sabbath keepers are in error, because calendar changes long ago in the dim past altered the weekly 7 day cycle, therefore the current week day cycle is erroneous. It is alleged that the correct Biblical weekly cycle can only be recovered by observing a lunar week, and thereby restore the observance of the correct weekly 7th day Sabbath.

The Bible does not teach that the week is set by the new moon. It teaches a 7 day week, as set once at creation, and that only the seventh day of the week is blessed and sanctified by God as a Sabbath day. There isn't a single example in the Bible of the first day of the week ever being determined or altered by the new moon. There is also a complete absence of any historical evidence that Israel ever followed the alleged lunar weekly Sabbath. But this utter lack of any support for the theory does not deter those who are fascinated by it and promote it. It is much like those who think Sunday keeping can be proved from the Bible, or the secret pretribulation rapture, or the immortal soul, or infant baptism, etc., etc. Usually not even explicit scripture that contradicts their theory dissuades proponents of these erroneous teachings.

Since Christ is the creator God, He knew and kept the correct weekly Sabbath for the 33 years he was on Earth, as He was the author of it. Was it necessary for Him to correct the Jews on the weekly Sabbath they were then keeping? No. We can then conclude with certainty that from creation to the time of Christ the weekly Sabbath was correctly observed. Since then, the Jews have not relied on secular or Christian sources to adjust their weekly cycle.

That leaves only the period from 31 A.D. to the present to be examined for a change in the weekly 7 day cycle. By the second century the Catholic church in Rome was already into Sunday keeping, and that without making any calendar change. They have observed the first day of the week regularly without fail ever since then. The papacy has never altered the weekly 7 day cycle. The papal Gregorian calendar in 1582 went from Thursday, Oct. 4, to Friday, October 15. It skipped 10 days but did not change the week at all.

That leaves 31 A.D. to about 150 A.D. for the alleged calendar change. There are no historical documents from that time period where either the Catholic Church OR the Jews discussed changing the weekly cycle, and implemented this change since the time of Christ. No documentation of any such discussion exists, because it did not happen. There is absolutely no historical record of a calendar change that in any way altered the weekly cycle universally for the whole world since the time of Christ.

http://biblelight.net/sabbath-lunacy.htm

[Carebear]

Please go to www.lunarsabbath.org and download the book that he has written on it. It explains things so much better then I ever could and shows how and why we should be doing a lunar Sabbath.

[James Randolph]

(Rev 21:23) And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
(Isa 66:23) And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

How are the Sabbath and new moon known in the New Jerusalem, since there is no need of the moon? Oh, I get it! The Sabbath and the first day of the month are not dependent on the moon at all in God's calendar.

[gary.zw]

Well WLC has come out now officially promoting the false lunar Sabbaths. This truly is sad. They did much good work in advancing the truth. They have fallen for this sophisticated deception of Satan.

The Bible does not teach that the week is set by the new moon. It teaches a 7 day week, as set once at creation, and that only the seventh day of the week is blessed and sanctified by God as a Sabbath day. There isn't a single example in the Bible of the first day of the week ever being determined or altered by the new moon. There is also a complete absence of any historical evidence that Israel ever followed the alleged lunar weekly Sabbath. But this utter lack of any support for the theory does not deter those who are fascinated by it and promote it. It is much like those who think Sunday keeping can be proved from the Bible, or the secret pretribulation rapture, or the immortal soul, or infant baptism, etc., etc. Usually not even explicit scripture that contradicts their theory dissuades proponents of these erroneous teachings.

Since Christ is the creator God, He knew and kept the correct weekly Sabbath for the 33 years he was on Earth, as He was the author of it. Was it necessary for Him to correct the Jews on the weekly Sabbath they were then keeping? No. We can then conclude with certainty that from creation to the time of Christ the weekly Sabbath was correctly observed. Since then, the Jews have not relied on secular or Christian sources to adjust their weekly cycle.

[gary.zw]

Scriptures which declare the real Sabbath

A real problem with the Lunar Sabbath doctrine is a lack of a clear explanation anywhere in scripture. It would be different if there were two scriptures that seemed to contradict one another and we were trying to figure out why that seemed to be. But there is nothing in the weekly Sabbath pattern that contradicts the scriptures.

I don't believe anyone reading the Sabbath commandment in Leviticus 23, or Exodus 20 alongside the creation account is going to come up with a "Lunar Sabbath" doctrine. There is no commandment anywhere in the scriptures which says:

"On the day following the new moon of each month, six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of Yahweh your Elohim. You shall do this for four weeks. Then, depending on whether the new month has started, you shall not engage in commerce or paid work for 1 or 2 days. Then you shall reset your week into the 'Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest' pattern."

Obviously, Yahweh never said any such thing, but this is the commandment that most Lunar Sabbath keepers follow. This is nothing more than a commandment of men because it is not found in the scriptures anywhere.

Let's remember that Yahweh said:

Deuteronomy 12:32 "Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.

The lack of such a command is, in my mind, quite damaging to the Lunar Sabbath doctrine. It basically means we need to assume that Yahweh thought people knew these things already, and always would, so He didn't need to explain it.

But...

If Yahweh was expecting man to work six days and keep the Sabbath on the seventh day on an uninterruptible recurring pattern, it would be easy to see that all He needed to do was command us to do our work for six days and rest on the seventh -- no further explanation needed.

And that's exactly what He did:

Exodus 20:9-10 "Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of Yahweh your Elohim."

Exodus 23:12a "Six days you shall do your work, and on the seventh day you shall rest."

Exodus 31:15 "Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to Yahweh."

Exodus 31:17 "It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days Yahweh made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.' "

Exodus 34:21 "Six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest;"

Exodus 35:2 "Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to Yahweh"

Deuteronomy 5:13-14 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of Yahweh your Elohim.

If we start without any fanciful ideas, and just take the scriptures for what they say, not adding anything to it, we could only arrive at understanding that Yahweh's Sabbath falls on an uninterruptible seven day (weekly) rotation. There really isn't room for any other possible interpretations. Six days you labor, and you rest on the seventh.

To further illustrate that a recurring pattern was intended, let's go back to the beginning of creation and find the Sabbath that Yahweh Himself established.

As we know, Genesis 1 details six days that Yahweh used to create the heavens and the earth. Each of those days consisted of an "evening and morning." Yahweh said that each of the "evenings and mornings" were specific days of a week.

When the seventh day came in Genesis 2, Yahweh said that He rested from his work, then blessed and sanctified that day:

Genesis 2:1-3 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day Elohim ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then Elohim blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which Elohim had created and made.

Later, when giving the Ten Commandments, Yahweh said:

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of Yahweh your Elohim. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days Yahweh made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore Yahweh blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Now, please pay close attention to what Yahweh has said. He blessed and sanctified one day. Twice He called it "the Sabbath day" and twice He called it "the seventh day."

Meditate on this a moment:

The fact that Yahweh blessed and sanctified one specific day... clearly demonstrates that a cyclic pattern is to follow. If that cyclic (recurring) pattern is ever interrupted by extra days, the one specific day (the 7th day) disappears!

If Yahweh wanted to sanctify and bless the 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th days of the month, He would need to say that He blessed and sanctified specific days of the month. In other words, the blessing and sanctifying would have been in the context multiple days of a lunar month, not one specific day of a 7 day week. Thus, the fact that there is one day called the Sabbath demonstrates that you can't interrupt the week.

To further illustrate this, let's go back to the beginning and look at things from Adam's perspective.

Yahweh had just created the heavens and the earth in six days. The Sabbath was sanctified and just passed. All was beautiful and perfect.

Now what?

The following day is obviously going to be a day for fulfilling Yahweh's command to work in the garden. If we were Adam, what would we do if six "evenings and mornings" go by? Obviously, we keep holy the seventh day, the one specific day that Yahweh commanded be kept holy.

Then what? We have additional evenings and mornings coming so what do we do? The obvious choice is that we work six more and rest on the seventh day. The recurring seven day week cycle is born from the moment Yahweh rested on the seventh day and told man to do the same. It is very obvious and not difficult to understand at all.

Now suppose Yahweh instituted the Lunar Sabbath at creation. After 3 weeks of following a recurring 7 day week with observing the one specific day that Yahweh called the Sabbath, six more "evenings and mornings" go by and what do we do? We rest again on one specific day, the seventh day.

Then what? This is where even Lunar Sabbatarians differ from one another. Some say, if we were Adam we would rest on the eighth day, and then rest the ninth day also if the moon isn't in new yet. But for what reason? This doesn't fit any pattern that Yahweh set forth in creation. We would no longer be keeping "the Sabbath" on that one specific day, the seventh day. To allow that pattern to be interrupted is to walk away from keeping the Sabbath on the one specific day that Yahweh made holy, the seventh day!

Other Lunar Sabbatarians would say that Adam would have only needed to refrain from commerce and/or working for money on the eighth and ninth days. But in Adam's day, there wasn't anyone around to buy or sell to, and there certainly wasn't anyone to pay Adam for any work. In fact, with this understanding Adam could have resumed his tending of the garden of Eden on the day after the Sabbath and would continued his work in the garden for a total of 7 or 8 days, then rested on the ninth day. The fact that he could continue working in the garden for 7 or 8 days violates the pattern that Yahweh set forth in Genesis. The seventh day passes by and is ignored with this understanding of Sabbath keeping.

The truth is, Yahweh didn't rest two days and He didn't rest for three days. He didn't say to do a half-rest for one day or two days following the 4th Sabbath of the month. This is a commandment of men. Yahweh made one specific day holy and one day only. He did no work for six days and rested on the seventh day. It is His pattern that we are supposed to be following when it comes to keeping the holy Sabbath, as He said here:

Exodus 20:11 For in six days Yahweh made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore Yahweh blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

It says "Yahweh blessed the seventh day and hallowed it." Notice it does not say "Elohim blessed the seventh day, and sometimes the eighth and ninth days are blessed and sanctified too, depending on whether or not the new moon has shown up yet."

There is only one day out of the week that Yahweh sanctified, and that is the seventh day of the week. There is no such thing as an eight day week or a nine day week. If there were, the pattern established at creation is thrown into confusion. A Sabbath could last not one day, but one, two or possibly three days--thereby causing the one day sanctification pattern to disappear. If one chooses to work for 7 or 8 days rather than rest on the extra days, it causes the seventh day sanctification pattern to disappear.

In acknowledgement of this contradiction, some Lunar Sabbath observers have started referring to the leftover days at the end of the month as "non-days." In other words, those days at the end of the month aren't really days at all. They're just nothing.

Of course, this is all they really can say.

http://www.eliyah.com/lunarsabbath.html

[marwy]

Gary.zw
Wonder what will be said of the none-days planned for the NEW WORLD CALENDAR slated for launch Jan . 2012 causing Sabbath to 'Float' thru the week every subsequent year -- and how will it be accommodated / counteracted by Sabbatharians? The true lunisolar 'Moon' Calendar will sure come in handy then - it seems Creator is being 'smart' enough to prepare His sheep ahead of time -----?

and to Randolph,
please look/think outside the box -- if New Moon will be observed in New Jerusalem, surely the moon will be seen there. The CITY will have no need of its light, but the rest of the NEW Earth (Globe) will sure have need of the Sun and moon --- or is there scripture that says no?

[gary.zw]

Marwy,

You can not keep the true 7th day sabbath following the 'Moon' Calendar. You certainly have received the Mark of the Beast as verily as if you would have kept the Sunday Sabbath. There Lunar Sabbath's are truly a strong delusion coming in from Satan.

[Colbo]

Hi everyone!
I have been thinking about all this, and the business of the moon creation comes to mind.
Genesis 1:16 explains that God gave two great lights for day & night. Now, the new moon crescent doesn't give any light, whereas the 'full' moon does, sooo, did He create it as a full moon to give the light?? and the cycle started from there?
Those first couple of Genesis chapters can produce as much debate as the sabbath can!!
Compare Gen 1:26 - 28 to Gen 2:5 & 7. Did He make 'them' first, (others-plural) then Adam.
Just thought I'd poke that into the debate!!
Regards Colin.