Coming of Christ?

[Benovan Staunchiano]

I think it's much better to live without worrying about all those different ideas and stories in your book, and to accept that some of us have moved on. God doesn't need thousands of different writers over a period of time with barbaric and archaic methods of communication to reveal himself to us in the earth around us.

Basically, if a message is loving, kind and uplifting, it's a good thing, and I support it.

If the message is cloudy or confused, like the bible command not to kill followed by one to Joshua and David to kill others, I don't pay much attention to it.

Here's a perfect example of one of these bible dorks telling us that we're "blinded" simply because he/she still loves the book more than the "friend" he/she is trying to push the message on. Did he/she consider whether the person is smarter than themself? Probably not. Did they consider whether or not they have studied ancient Hebrew and Greek? Probably not. Did they consider that there are about 10 other religions out there that have their own ancient book with different commands from those 10 gods of those books? Probably not.

Being raised in the west and taught English doesn't qualify a person as "knowing" anything. Try reading the Avesta, or better yet, compare some of those bible texts to other ancient texts that predate the bible, but contain the same ideas.

Fascinating this silly human race.

[Guest]

Dear Ben,
I think you make a very good point here. Most people believe in the Bible because they were born in the West and have simply been taught to believe in the Bible from childhood. Or they have picked it up later from the environment later.
I would also agree with you that one ought to have a better criterion than that.
You also imply another thing that is very true. There are a lot of sacred books out there whose adherents use the same arguments to support as Christians use for the Bible. That puts everybody in the same boat, with the same evidence: believing whatever happens to be dominant where you were born.
Again, I would agree that one needs a better criterion than that for accepting any book as of value.
Personally, having read most of those classical sources of religion, I find the Bible to include a text that stands out for some objective reasons. There is no other book that claims some God appeared publicly and spoke directly to several million people, giving a brief and comprehensive expression of His will for humankind. Such a story exists in the Bible in Exodus 20:1-17. Whether the story is true or not, it is a unique phenomenon as such. If one accepts those objective criteria, public and direct speech, then the ten commandments is the place to start, as a rule of thumb, and the book that contains it is potentially of value.
Taking that rule of thumb, I find the Bible of practical value insofar as I see it to support, enhance and apply the ten commandments. If I find myself reading something that conflicts with that, then I figure I've either got the wrong idea from the text (try to conceive of that possibility, brother Ben), or else the text really is of no value. So far, that has worked for me, and made it possible for me to benefit from a book that has spelling errors, lapses, textual variants, and what I may perceive as inconsistencies.

[Benovan Staunchiano]

Thomas,

Excellent treatise!

I would also add that the Decalogue contains no mention of any Christ, Satan, Demons, Apostles, Baptism, Miracles, Hell, Trinity, Virgin Birth, Cross, Death & Resurrection, or any other dogmatic influence other than basic humble living.

Ben

[Yirmeyahu]

I find it rather odd but then again rather amusing that you all ignore scripture. For scripture tells us what to look for in the signs of the end times, as well when the last period of the 7 years begin!
-Yirmeyahu/Jeremiah 30:7 ...And it is the time of Ya’aqob's distress, but he shall be saved out of it.

-Dani'el 9:27 “And he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week. And in the middle of the week he shall put an end to slaughtering and meal offering. And on the wing of abominations he shall lay waste, even until the complete end and that which is decreed is poured out on the one who lays waste.”
{ 7 year = 84 months = 364 weeks = 2555 days plus 1 or 2 days for leap years. }

-Mattithyahu/Matt 24:22 “And if those days were not shortened, no flesh would be saved, but for the sake of the chosen ones those days shall be shortened."

-Dani'el 8:14 And he said to me, “For two thousand three hundred days, then that which is setapart
shall be made right.”
{ 2300 days = 6 years 3 months 2 weeks & a few days. }

******* Time period prior before the beginning of the tribulation *******

The fifth rule: Dani'el 2:41-43 &44 vs41 "Yet, as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the reign is to be divided. But some of the strength of the iron is to be in it,
because you saw the iron mixed with muddy clay."
-vs 42 "And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the reign is
partly strong and partly brittle."
-vs 43 "And as you saw iron mixed with muddy clay, they are mixing themselves with the seed of men,
but they are not clinging to each other, even as iron does not mix with clay."
*Note! These three verses shows that, the last reign will be of two kings of two different kingdoms that will not climg to each other. And that the two kingdoms will incompass four types of peoples, two seperate groups with in each kingdom. Muslim/Islam and Pope RRC/Christianity. Proof of this view is in vs 44, as well it gives the time period it takes place, the tribulation - Chizayon/Revelatiom (11:15).
-vs 44 "And in the days of these sovereigns the Elah of the heavens shall set up a reign which shall never be destroyed, nor the reign pass on to other people –
it crushes and puts to an end all these reigns, and it shall stand forever."
*Note! When you combine both Muslim & Chritanity into one group. The numbers combined are far greater then all the other religions combined that exhist today.

-Yeshayahu/Isaih 66:8 “Who has heard the like of this? Who has seen the like of these? Is a land brought
forth in one day? Is a nation born at once? For as soon as Tsiyon laboured, she gave birth to her children."
*Note! This is a prophacy fulfilled when Yisra'el was officialy recognised as a nation by the UN back in 1948.
- Mattithyahu 24:32-34 “And learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become
tender and puts forth leaves, you know that the summer is near."
“So you also, when you see all these, know that He is near, at the doors."
"Truly, I say to you, this generation shall by no means pass away until all this takes place."
*Note! This is prophacy regarding to Yisra'els capture of the Temple wall in the war in 1967. For now they have land.
There three Hebraic views a what a generation is.
#1- At birth. When a couple brings forth their first born child, rather it be male or female. But should that couple have any more children over a period of time, illregardless of the range of age from oldest to the youngest is still all of one generation of the parents.
#2- When a child reaches the age of accountability and pass their Bar/Bat Mitzvah which is around the age of 12. A good example of this is found in Luke 2:41-52.
#3- When one reaches the age of 20, eample Shemoth/Exodus 30:14
But if one was to ponder on it. Then so far Yeshayahu/Isaih 66:8 is still the possiblety of being the last generation.

At this preseant time there is no Temple, no Alter of Sacrafice,and no 7 year peace tready made with the or involved with the beast as of yet. And no two witnesses. So we still have some time to go ( in exsess of 2300 days ) before thr return of the Messiah/Savior.

******* Before the beginning of the seven year tibulation *******
- Chizayon/Revelation 6:1-2; vs1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying, like a sound of thunder, “Come and see.”
-vs 2 And I looked and saw a white horse, and he who sat on it holding a bow. And a
crown was given to him, and he went out overcoming and to overcome.
*Note! This is not the Messiah! But the false messiah that goes out. He has a bow but no arrow. Shows that he will overcome the world thrugh desiption, and brings about the covennant that starts the tribulation.
And thats where we are at now.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The event that starts the beginnig of the tribulation period
******* The Covanent/Seven Year Peace tready *******
-Dani'el 9:27 “And he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week.
*Note! The week as above does not mean a week of days or months but years. And starts the Tribulation.
Then comes four important things. #1: The Beast & the Covenant. #2: The two Witnesses. #3: The Alter of sacrafice. #4: The third and last man made Temple.

#1 The Beast & the Covenant.

#2) The two witnesses - Chizayon/Revelation 11:3 “And I shall give unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clad in sackcloth.” The 1260 days that they prophesy = 3 1/2 years = 42 months = 130 weeks.
---- Who are the two witnesses?
There is a huge summation of a common thought the the two are Mosheh/Moses and Eliyahu/Elijah because of Mattithyahu/Matthew 17:1-4; Mark 9:2-8; Lukus/Luke 9:28-37. In light of all partainning scripture, this tought of view may not neccesaraly be accurate, because of other scripture (please understand that I am not trying to be decieptick/ to decieve nor cunterdicting scpripture or to force change anyones belief. However personaly I find it rather odd that the above references was give by those who were not there. And the three who was there with the Messiah when He was transfigured, nothing was said about the event by the ones who were there!).
---- There is four possibileties:
A) - Hanok/Enock; Bereshith/Gen 5:24 And Hanok/Enock walked with Elohim. Then he was no more, for Elohim took him. & Ibrim/Hebrews 11:5 By belief, Hanok was translated so as not to see death, “and was not found because Elohim had translated him.” For before his translation he obtained witness,
that he pleased Elohim.

B) - Mosheh/Moses; Mattithyahu/Matthew 17:1-4; Mark 9:2-8; Lukus/Luke 9:28-37

C) - Eliyahu/Elijah; Mattithyahu/Matthew 17:1-4; Mark 9:2-8; Lukus/Luke 9:28-37

D) - Yohanan/John; Matt 16:28 “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death at all until they see the Son of Adam coming in His reign:” Mark 9:1; Lukus/Luke 9:27;
Yohanan/John 21:22-23; Chizayon/Revelation 10:11 And he said to me, “You have to prophesy
again concerning many peoples and nations and tongues and sovereigns.”


#3 The Alter of sacrafice.


#4 The third and last man made temple.
This subject Matter I am not done with, for there is more vital info to be added, then proofed, spell checked... You know the drill.

[Guest]

Dear Yermiyahu,
I know there is a welter of new ideas among the so-called Messianic Jews, and you seem to be drawing from those. There is an article on this website under the Articles menu that deals with the issue of the 2300 evenings and mornings which you might find of interest, or if not of interest, at least enlightening as to what teachings are promoted by this site.
It is clear that you have a firm grasp of what you think the text is saying, but it would be appropriate on this site to put your beliefs within the context of dialogue with this site's teachings. That way, you will be participating in a discussion rather than just promoting your own ideas. In the end, who know? Maybe you have something there.

[Einston]

Thomas,

This is rather easy to debunk:

Take Matthew 27:51-54 for instance. We ONLY have Matthew's account of this amazing feat, people rising from the grave and entering Jerusalem. Paul never mentions it, neither does any other "gospel" writer. Why not? If it happened, truly it would have been the most miraculous event ever in human history. But a single one liner in Matthew's account for it? What did all those dead bodies look like entering the city also? Was the flesh hanging off them? Did they stink? What happened to them after their resurrection?

Lots of unanswered questions in the bible, yes....

Gordon

Hello Gordon..

It is good to see you asking questions again.

In response to your statement, i would like to say:
Have you ever read the account of the Resurrection of Lazarus? Did he stink after he was resurrected? Did the flesh hang off him? The answer is no.

When Lazarus was resurrected, the corruption of his flesh was restored to a normal, healthy, living state. To think anything else, would be doubting the fact that God is the Creator and origin of all life. Did not Christ eat with Lazarus after Lazarus was resurrected? Yes he did. See John 12:2. There were other people at the table also. Would you expect people to dine with a person that has stinking decayed flesh hanging from their bones? No.

It is true that the resurrection of those people after the death of Christ is not otherwise reffered to. Is there not many, many passages in the Old Testament that is also only once reffered to? In the Torha?

I can assure you that the people that was resurrected after the death of Christ, found themselves some clothes and mingled with the rest of the people as normal people. They would return to their families or go look for their desendants.

Why do you ask what those dead bodies looked like entering the city? Dont you know that dead bodies cant walk around and enter cities? The dead know not anything. They no longer have any part in anything that happens under the sun. They dont breat and they certainly dont walk around. If you are ressurected, your life and breath is returned to you and your body is resotored from the corruption of the grave.

Have you ever wondered why the gospels by Matthew, Mark and Luke are so similar? Yet each one contains a few things that are not in one of the other three gospels? Does not both the Old and New Testaments teach that two or three witnesses are required to establish a truth? Do you think that God would mindlessly repeat Himself? Or would there be a purpose for repeating things? The little details that are unique to each of the three shows that they were written by three different people. Do you think that three people would tell the same story and that one would not add some small detail that the other did not add to their story? How often are three people witnesses of a crime and each has something to say that the other two has not?

I dont know about you but as to the resurrection of those people from the dead being the most miraculous event in human history, i am not so sure. They would find clothes and get dressed and tommorow it would require faith to believe that that person was dead the day before. Only their families and friend that buried them would know for sure that a miracle has happened. I think the parting of the red sea after the exodus is a far greater miracle. Many thousands of people went through the red sea on dry land. Many Egiptians perished in the waters of the red sea.

Dear Gordon, i can see that you struggle to accept Christ as the Messiah. I would reccommend that you study the prophecies of the Messiah in the Old Testament. Yes, even the time prophecy found in Daniel 9:24-27. There are many of them. They were all fulfilled by Christ. You need to first prove to yourself that Christ is the Messiah. Then all these questions will vanish. Remember, those that seek fault with the scriptures shall find "what appears to be fault" and those that seek truth, righteousness and everlasting life shall also find it. A study of the scriptures should be done prayerfully. Let us not be wise in our own selves. He that think he knows anything, knows nothing as he ought to know. Pray that you also might discover the truth. Seek it dilligently and you shall find it. Seek for it as for lost treasure. Find yourself an Authorised King James Version Bible and study it because many of the modern translations have been corrupted.

2 Peter 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Luke 24:25-27
25. Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27. And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

[Einston]

Guest wrote:
Thomas,

This is rather easy to debunk:

Take Matthew 27:51-54 for instance. We ONLY have Matthew's account of this amazing feat, people rising from the grave and entering Jerusalem. Paul never mentions it, neither does any other "gospel" writer. Why not? If it happened, truly it would have been the most miraculous event ever in human history. But a single one liner in Matthew's account for it? What did all those dead bodies look like entering the city also? Was the flesh hanging off them? Did they stink? What happened to them after their resurrection?

Lots of unanswered questions in the bible, yes....

Gordon

Hello Gordon..

It is good to see you asking questions again.

In response to your statement, i would like to say:
Have you ever read the account of the Resurrection of Lazarus? Did he stink after he was resurrected? Did the flesh hang off him? The answer is no.

When Lazarus was resurrected, the corruption of his flesh was restored to a normal, healthy, living state. To think anything else, would be doubting the fact that God is the Creator and origin of all life. Did not Christ eat with Lazarus after Lazarus was resurrected? Yes he did. See John 12:2. There were other people at the table also. Would you expect people to dine with a person that has stinking decayed flesh hanging from their bones? No.

It is true that the resurrection of those people after the death of Christ is not otherwise reffered to. Is there not many, many passages in the Old Testament that is also only once reffered to? In the Torha?

I can assure you that the people that was resurrected after the death of Christ, found themselves some clothes and mingled with the rest of the people as normal people. They would return to their families or go look for their desendants.

Why do you ask what those dead bodies looked like entering the city? Dont you know that dead bodies cant walk around and enter cities? The dead know not anything. They no longer have any part in anything that happens under the sun. They dont breat and they certainly dont walk around. If you are ressurected, your life and breath is returned to you and your body is resotored from the corruption of the grave.

Have you ever wondered why the gospels by Matthew, Mark and Luke are so similar? Yet each one contains a few things that are not in one of the other three gospels? Does not both the Old and New Testaments teach that two or three witnesses are required to establish a truth? Do you think that God would mindlessly repeat Himself? Or would there be a purpose for repeating things? The little details that are unique to each of the three shows that they were written by three different people. Do you think that three people would tell the same story and that one would not add some small detail that the other did not add to their story? How often are three people witnesses of a crime and each has something to say that the other two has not?

I dont know about you but as to the resurrection of those people from the dead being the most miraculous event in human history, i am not so sure. They would find clothes and get dressed and tommorow it would require faith to believe that that person was dead the day before. Only their families and friend that buried them would know for sure that a miracle has happened. I think the parting of the red sea after the exodus is a far greater miracle. Many thousands of people went through the red sea on dry land. Many Egiptians perished in the waters of the red sea.

Dear Gordon, i can see that you struggle to accept Christ as the Messiah. I would reccommend that you study the prophecies of the Messiah in the Old Testament. Yes, even the time prophecy found in Daniel 9:24-27. There are many of them. They were all fulfilled by Christ. You need to first prove to yourself that Christ is the Messiah. Then all these questions will vanish. Remember, those that seek fault with the scriptures shall find "what appears to be fault" and those that seek truth, righteousness and everlasting life shall also find it. A study of the scriptures should be done prayerfully. Let us not be wise in our own selves. He that think he knows anything, knows nothing as he ought to know. Pray that you also might discover the truth. Seek it dilligently and you shall find it. Seek for it as for lost treasure. Find yourself an Authorised King James Version Bible and study it because many of the modern translations have been corrupted.

2 Peter 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Luke 24:25-27
25. Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27. And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

[endtimeelijah]

Could the 'apparent delay' be due to the fact that enough believers have not 'stormed' every corner of the world and faithfully carried out our mandate?

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

With only such a small global minority accepting His TRUTH, Creator might be hard pressed NOT to make His appearance.
However, with the many prophesies being fulfilled daily - especially the increase of lawlessness - if He delays much longer --He might very well have to apologize to Sodom etc ----

Shalom

[neamz]

From the New King James Version, Acts 1:

4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me[a] in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

With all due respect. Can the last sentence mean that Jesus Christ will appear on the Internet?

Katrine

[marwy]

"IF' anything is left - not 'destroyed by the brightness of His coming' - who knows - some might even have the chance to post some videos on youtube - If every eye shall see Him - looks like His appearance in the skies might last long enough for a full sweep around planet earth - then sudden destruction?